Immigration And the Kind Of Nation We Need To Be

border-patrol-car-patroling-on-border_w725_h483-300x199 Immigration And the Kind Of Nation We Need To Be

“Many want to be free from the restraints of belonging to an organized polity.”

The immigration crisis brings to the forefront many issues that have long festered in the body politic.

It involves the future of an order inside a nation, which today is fragmented and polarized without a clear course ahead. What is at stake is not just the composition of who makes up the nation, but the very idea of what kind of nation we want to be.

And so, in the face of the immigration crisis, we need to ask what kind of nation do we want to be? There no longer is a single response.

RTO-mini2 Immigration And the Kind Of Nation We Need To BeFree Book: Return to Order: From a Frenzied Economy to an Organic Christian Society—Where We’ve Been, How We Got Here, and Where We Need to Go

There are those who simply do not want to be a nation at all. In postmodern times, they consider the nation-state outdated. Across the political spectrum, many want to be free from the restraints of belonging to an organized polity. To these, America should be what philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre calls “nothing but a meeting place for individual wills, each with its own set of attitudes and preferences and who understand that world solely as an arena for the achievement of their own satisfaction.” Any notion of a common good or identity is rejected outright.

Those favoring this non-nation America see immigrants as just more “individual wills” meeting in pursuit of happiness. They believe that if life is a universal global party, then all must be invited. Every barrier should be leveled and border opened. Some claim markets will ensure all get their opportunity to live for their own satisfaction. Others trust more in government programs and entitlements.

Clearly this vision that sees no need for an American identity is not what America should be.

There is a second group of people who want to be a nation modeled on a co-op or shareholding company. To them, the nation represents advantages for which they are willing to work. Like a shareholding firm, the American co-op is full of legitimate benefits with distributed risks, voting privileges, few liabilities, and plenty of recreational opportunities. As long as an atmosphere of well-being and happiness exists, members renew their membership with great enthusiasm. But when times are rough, many withdraw their support and become bitter and critical of the nation.

In good times, this group sees immigration as something that brings more shareholders into the system and they are welcomed. But in bad times, immigration is a threat to the well-being of the co-op. It threatens to overwhelm the system and put everyone’s future in jeopardy. These Americans are torn by the contradiction of being the sons of needed immigrants and the foes of unneeded ones. They are left confused and guilty.

Such a model of self-interest that shrinks from adversity is also not what America should be.

There is a third group that wants to be a nation that is modeled as a people. This sector has nothing in common with nationalist incarnations that deify the nation and distort its meaning. Rather, these are people that sense that America is not just “a meeting place of individual wills” or a prosperous cooperative venture with legitimate benefits. America is more like a family, where all share its inherent responsibilities, duties and privileges. They understand it is not our massive economic power but our moral fiber that makes America great. These Americans perceive that the foundations of our American order are based upon institutions from our Christian past like the rule of law, representative government and the norms of justice and charity.

These same Americans also realize that this order is under attack on all sides and express a willingness to sacrifice and fight, even to give their very lives, so that it might not falter. They love America and ask that God bless her.

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For these Americans, immigration represents a challenge. Their generous hearts have always welcomed immigrants, but they ask in return that those who come respect our institutions and contribute to the moral fiber that makes America great. Let them not be criminal elements or those who do not follow the rule of law. They must desire to become members of the family, distinct yet fully integrated into our ways. Let them love this country and join in the ranks of those who fight for our threatened order.

Such sentiments should be the basis of a sound immigration policy. This kind of America can confront a crisis. This is the nation that we need to be.

  • David Wilmot

    Well said, John. But we face the immediate problem of how to protect the undocumented children at our borders. I don’t have the answer.

    • Marjorie Martin

      Send them back to where Obama got them. He is only using them as a pawn and is responsible for their being here.

      • JeanneD

        Absolutely right, Marjorie. It is amazing that so many will not admit that is the only rational answer. Perhaps there is fear of how that action would be perceived around the world.
        Actually, that is not what is most important here.

        • Jacqueleen

          It has been reported that people from 75 different countries have come over the border since the children arrived and Obama made it clear that they will not be stopped. Well, is Obama willing to support them all…not taxpayers or American jobs…..???? No way…He wants to destroy the American Revolutionist who will balk at his agenda. I often wonder what is taking them so long to see what is happening here before it is too late. Obama is working together with his Czars around the clock to secure his plans…and that includes a hostile army…probably Chinese & Russians and of course the illegals that after amnesty will be forced into the army to shoot Americans. This is so sick and the church is going right along with it! Come, Lord Jesus Come…we desperately need your Divine Intervention!

          • Lori

            The Church promoted and is helping to implement Obamacare also. Most schools are Common Core compliant so they can get vouchers from the state also. Just call your bishop and priest a gov’t agent because they might as well be working for the gov’t.

          • Jacqueleen

            The Bishops hear from me at least every other day because I am well aware of the fact that the Bishops clamored for Universal Healthcare for the illegals, hence, the Bishops knew what was coming down besides they groomed thousands of Spanish speaking Seminarians and priests to man the Spanish churches. Then, they clamored for amnesty until the overwhelming amount of opposition made them change their platform to “earned pathway to citizenship!” Speak about talking through forked tongue. The Bishops made a deal with the devil, Obama, “Obamacare for Amnesty.” If you are still donating to the Bishops appeal, I suggest that you stop immediately and leave that to the preferred illegals. Hurting Americans have been long forgotten by the Church but not by God, whose wrath is unlike any wrath we could imagine. Our God is merciful but less we forget, He is also a God of JUSTICE.

          • Sister Mary Grace

            Can you explain this to me more? We shouldn’t support the Bishop’s appeal?

          • JoeAllen

            The US Cardinals and Bishops are in bed with Obama and the Democrats.
            They call it LIBERATION THEOLOGY and they treat POVERTY as the GREATEST EVIL. For Obama-Catholics, Abortion and Homosexuality and Murder are very minor sins compared to … POVERTY … .

          • Jacqueleen

            Sister Mary Grace, Have you heard one Bishop or one priest anywhere in the USA or the Pope for that matter, speak out about the suffering, unemployed American worker, unable to find a job, who has lost everything, retirement, homes, autos, savings and whose benefits have run out and are living on their parental savings or in tents in the west and falling into despair? Then, there are those consultants who work under contract and who are not among the false numbers published by this corrupt government and cannot find work. Have you heard a whisper of compassion going to the American worker who has supported the church all their lives but is now hurting? Have you heard any mention of concern about the middle class shrinking? Have you heard the Bishops calling for jobs for Americans? We hear the Pope and Bishops talk about giving more to the poor (You know, the poor that Jesus said that we would always have with us.) We hear them talk about re-distribution of wealth following in Obama’s footsteps. The Bishops have turned a blind eye to the facts exposed by Senator Ted Cruz that Obama had hidden in the Amnesty bill a penalty to any corporation of $5,000/person who hires an American over an illegal alien! Now anyone with an ounce of intelligence would know that Obama had sent that mandate out verbally several years prior but was trying to cover up his evil by making it a law! This is why Americans are passed up for a job. Once they are let go from a job, they are finished! Americans are falling into despair (Satan’s workshop) at the prodding of the Bishops who favor the invasion of illegals who are coming here for a better job? A better job? LOL Most jobs went to China, etc. What are they doing here? They should be sent to China to get a job, don’t you agree? Lies, lies, lies.

            I am out there in the trenches evangelizing daily. I hear the cries of the poor Americans, I hear the despair in their hearts and mouths. I want to cry with them because Americans are surrounded by traitors. Americans are not against legal immigration. It is the lawlessness of this administration and illegal immigration that has Americans up in arms. I have reminded the Bishops that when the bloodshed happens and it will…the bloodshed will be on their heads as well as those orchestrating this chaos. The Bishops have taken the stance that this invasion of illegal aliens, to the tune of millions should be treated as a humanitarian thing to do regardless of the fact that they will be taking even more jobs from Americans. Can you see the handwriting on the wall? Destroy the middle class and dumb down the nation. The Bishops have listened to the slippery tongued serpent in the Oval office far too long and likewise have resorted to deception for the sake of the collection basket. They made the deal, Universal Healthcare for Amnesty….what a terrible mistake!

            Give me one good reason why a Catholic should fund the Bishop’s appeal which will go to aid the law breakers and not the suffering Catholics? Out in the trenches, tells a whole different story about the aid that is denied Americans from both this government and the church. This is not a fairytale. It is the truth. Remember, it is not just the 30 million unemployed Americans and the uncounted Consultants, Real Estate Agents, etc. but their parents who are losing their security by helping their adult children. It is a massive attack on the American people.

            If anyone out there is still donating to the Bishop’s appeal….I strongly suggest that you stop immediately and leave that to the preferred illegal law breaker.

            Sister, may I refer you to Romans 13:1-2, St. Paul saying that the disciples must honor the laws of the land because all laws are instituted by Christ and those who ignore the law will be subject to God’s judgement. Then, please read about Sister Mary Ephrem’s writings about the apparitions from Our Lady of America and St. Joseph, page 18 online that states St. Joseph’s warning to honor the laws of the land, which was approved by the Bishop. Then, has not Our Blessed Mother called us to pray for the end of Communism and the conversion of Russia? If Communism was a good thing would Our Lady request this of us? The Popes for centuries wrote that Socialism, the fore runner to Communism is an EVIL. The liberal bishops and this Pope seem to be dismissing all of Divine inspiration given to the Popes of the past. We are living in end times…the signs are all around us. Pray for the souls of the Bishops and this Pope and for the welfare of the American people.

          • Rosech Levy

            Sister, precisely. I stop giving anything to the appeal because they were using the funds against us and not for us. Our bishop is morbidly obese and disgusting considering how many real citizens can hardly purchase food, pay rent, etc. in CA. However, I have found a compassion center to which I can help our people and I let everyone I know go there. AND it is not a Catholic center because our church is taking care of illegals so no way will I contribute to it or take food items, clothing, etc. to it. America first!

          • Bruce1314

            The Catholic Church FIRST before any country

      • Jacqueleen

        Yes, indeed and start with the illegal alien in the Oval Office. There are millions of illegals here that must be sent back not only this recent invasion of children, criminals, prostitutes and only God knows who else.

        • grandmary42

          When was this written? Obama, is out!

          • Jacqueleen

            The site says 3 years ago…..

          • Rosech Levy

            I am sure Jacqueleen meant Obama and not Trump and I agree with her. Hear Obama is spending $15 million for a house on Martha’s Vineyard so send the illegals he wanted in America so badly to his home to live! However, I prefer that when he steps foot on our soil that he is arrested, in prison, a quick overnight trial, and publicly hanged for being an illegal alien himself and causing all this garbage in our country. Treason is treason even with a ridiculous narcissist!

      • Kathleen Daley

        These children, now young adults and teens, were here before Obama was ever even heard of. They have known no other home than America. The vast majority of them are well educated hoping for good jobs. Indeed many have good jobs. Their parents were escaping horrors in their own countries, and they obviously brought up their children to be productive members of society, to give back and not just take. I’m not an Obama fan either, but neither am I a Trump fan. And you need to realize so many of these folks came here under Bush too. We had nuns in our parish who had worked among Mexican immigrants in Colorado. They have high praise for them, as hard working, moral, kind really decent folks, and very strong traditional Catholics. These nuns were not so impressed with Americans whose families had been here 200 or so years, and were lazy, takers, felt life should be handed to them and were leaving the Church in droves. We Americans seem to conviently forget we are all children of immigrants. Only Indians are Native Americans.

    • Jacqueleen

      Why is it our responsibility to protect a planned political strategy by the Obama and Holder deal called “Fast & Furious” the illegal sale of weapons to the drug cartel to escort the sick and diseased children, teens (criminals and prostitutes which are not the same caliber as USA teens) and adults who broke the law to enter this country? Is it the USA’s responsibility to take care of the entire world. It has been noted that Chinese and terrorists are coming in by way of the back door, too.

      Obama is the one who encouraged unlawful entry with open borders and the failure to enforce our Immigration Laws NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. It is a political error to keep the borders wide open allowing people from (last count) over 75 countries to enter unknown to authorities bringing leprosy, the killer TB and many childhood diseases and suitcase nuclear bombs.. I have asked myself over and over, “How could a parent allow his/her child to come illegally to a strange country without parental supervision? This is NOT HUMANITARIAN but rather a vicious, deceptive POLITICAL STRATEGY by the Democrat/Communist party that resulted in the children being abused on the way. After the children are here, we will be forced to allow a chain of immigration for the parents, grand parents, brothers , sister, etc. There are several reasons for this unlawful invasion of our country. Most importantly, it is to produce more cheap labor for the filthy rich Corporatists in this country who could care less about the American worker who made them rich in the first place and to provide the Democrat/Communists with more votes. For this we, American Taxpayers must become masochists? I never hear a priest, bishop or the Pope sympathize with the 30 million plus unemployed Americans that are hurting and lost everything falling into despair (the workings of the devil). The church has gone secular giving full reign to Satan!


      Did not the Blessed Mother ask us to pray for the conversion of Communism? Did not St. John Paul II speak out in Poland about Communism and it fell soon after his visit? Did not the Popes for centuries write that Socialism is an EVIL? Did not St. Joseph appear to Sr. Mary Ephrem and warn us to honor the law of the land? Did not the Bishops approve these apparitions of Our Lady of America? Furthermore, this is braking the 10th Commandment and the 7th Commandments…..Romans 13 says that those who do not honor the law of the land will be subject to God’s judgement because all law is instituted by God, Himself.

      What is wrong with the Liberal Bishops and the Liberal Pope for pushing Social Justice which in essence means Socialism/Communism…. The articles that I read when Pope Francis was elected must have been accurate that he indeed represents Liberation Theology (Marxism not religion.) God help us and protect us from the heresies within the church.

      There is nothing wrong with this country, the greatest country in the world. It does not need transformation or Immigration Reform. IT NEEDS ENFORCEMENT OF THE GOOD and GENEROUS IMMIGRATION LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. Mr. Horvat’s choices do not fit immigration reform for all. He is representing the views of the liberal and moderate set. It is the Progressive/Communist invasion of Washington DC that has upset the fundamentals of our society for their own ends.

      God bless America…..The land founded on Christian principles and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. The only change we need is to repent, turn from our sins and go back to our faith….and out of the Great Apostasy. 2 Chronicles 7:14 The topic of conversation should be….PRAY, PRAY HARD for this country, for the clergy, for the Pope and especially for Pope Benedict XVI, Emeritus. Come, Lord Jesus, come.

    • Rosech Levy

      David, not our problem but Mexico’s or any other of the various countries thinking their children will be citizens. Not so! First, we must take care of our own. A nun told me in my freshman year that charity begins in the home, and when that is handled, then go outside and outside to me taking care of Americans first and foremost and let those countries take back their people and care for them. Those invading children has documentation in their own country and we can bus them down to the first large city in Mexico which is not far away from the border (I lived in Mexico for years and know the country well) and drop them off there and let Mexico sort it out.

    • A Lee Lowe

      The parents need to take them back and raise them in their own country so they can keep the language and traditions they try to enforce in America and we don’t want that here. If I visit another country I have to pay for an interpreter, they come here and think it is all about them. This tree hugging has to stop. They are illegal and they know it but count on softies to do their bidding. The mother in many cases has waited till the last minute illegally entered America just to use their newborn for birthing and now the system is being fixed. This child was born here due to illegal entry. On purpose. It is not our responsibility to provide citizenship to this child or the family. Sorry but this has to stop.

  • JoeAllen

    As a Catholic, I am very upset with the LAWLESS, SELF-SERVING position of the Catholic Bishops on the immigration problem of the USA. The Catholic Bishops just want to fill up their Churches at the expense of the US taxpayers.

    There are at least 2 BILLION people in the world today who would LOVE to immigrate to the USA. Do the Catholic Bishops invite all 2 BILLION to come to the USA … ???

    The Catholic Bishops should have the COURAGE to blast the CORRUPTION and VIOLENCE in countries like Mexico and Guatemala and Honduras and Nicaragua … !!!

    • Jacqueleen

      Amen…!!!!! Kudos to you for paying attention! The Democratic party has become the Communist party and the Bishops love it!

      • Rosech Levy

        Jacqueleen, and Francis is not our pope but a fellow communist and a great friend of Obama which tells us a lot. Nevertheless, when I was a part of the RCIA, my partner instructor said remember this: we have had the church taking 2 steps forward and then one backward, but after 2000 yrs. we and our Church are still HERE! We have also had criminal popes and priests and we are still here. Can I say God is watching and again we will be saved. I even think that Mother Nature turning vile is part of God saying: better wake up or else.

  • albertbryson

    I agreed that the open door policy of our Catholic bishops is wrong and misguided. We have far too many illegals receiving all kinds of welfare benefits from the government and we the taxpayer can’t afford to continue this charity. We need to tell the illegals that it is time to go home to their native land and apply for admission properly under our law.

    • Rosech Levy

      Well, thanks to Trump, invaders on our soil count is up to 80% not coming or trying to invade our soil. Thanks to ICE and Border Guards we will continue to see the numbers diminishing, and, yes, the wall will be built and welfare, EBT, WIC and other freebies along with no money being sent ouf America to other countries will save literally many, many billions as some have calculated more than 7 billion saved will definitely pay for the wall and Mexico will be stuck with a lot of deported not sending money there and that is one way Mexico will pay for the wall. Now, Trump has mentioned a solar wall which I think is a great idea because Mexico needs energy and will purchase it and we can use the energy here as well. Love how a businessman named Trump thinks ahead to MAGA.

  • Dave77

    This is a sensitive subject but, the border is not secure, it needs to be secure, I pray that God blesses us with a secure border(s). Amen

    • Jacqueleen

      And you had better pray hard that the nuclear suitcase bombs did not come thru the border, too.

  • hal8196

    My RCC was infiltrated decades ago by communists, and we are now seeing the fruits of that infiltration. I am now seeing and hearing the phrase “social justice” being mentioned all the time in church. That phrase was mentioned in the books “School of Darkness” written by a communist and published in 1954. Evil works in slow, incremental steps.

    • grandmary42

      I agree! Social Justice makes me cringe! I’m a Catholic and my faith, which I pray for every day, is between me and God. The church, under Pope Francis, is straying from Jesus’s message. The Bishops should not be supporting the immigration of anyone, they should be supporting their own flock right here! If they want to do missionary work look in their own back yards! So many Catholics have fallen away because the men in the church are desecrating what the Church used to be and teach.

      • A Lee Lowe

        Question if you know there is corruption and you are a Catholic and staying Catholic makes you part of the corruption? Personally I would never want any kind of association with pedophiles and lawlessness. Maybe Catholics that know about the corruption but stay associated would do more good to leave it and let them know why. If enough leave they will have to rethink what they are doing.

        • NeoCrusader09434

          Leave the Catholic Church? Do you mean leave the mystical body of Christ and risk eternal damnation?
          “Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus” – outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation”.

      • Kathleen Daley

        I am the grandchild of Irish immigrants. All you’ve said was said against Irish Catholics. It was just fine to be Irish Protestants, but no Irish Catholics in America, please. Even in the 1950’s, I was told the Irish were a blight and could never be Americans. Though an honor graduate, I was told I was stupid, dirty, lazy and part of criminal elements. The best I could hope for was to be someone’s maid, so don’t bother with college. Jesus’s message was one of love and respect for all people which Pope Francis so ably teaches. Read your Bible. You’ll find you you are wrong!

        • grandmary42

          I’m of Irish decent myself. I said nothing against Irish Catholics! Go read my post again!
          I am against the Catholic Bishops ushering in a bunch of “refugees ” that turn into a liability for most towns. They get paid per head for each refugee but don’t follow through with housing, medical care, food, etc. Catholic Charities does excellent work but this part isn’t the best for our communities.

          • Kathleen Daley

            I know you said nothing against the Irish. I was using the Irish as an example of how in the past the exact same complaints were said against the Irish, yet we have done well. The Cubans in Florida were also subjected to much bigotry. It was said they would be a burden to Americans. The Cubans are a great people who are an asset to America. In order to better themselves, they were willing to work hard doing jobs Americans refused to do because it was beneath them. America has a long history of bigotry and demonizing immigrants. As Christians we are commanded to love and serve everyone. Jesus didn’t suggest it. He demanded we love. Love is how we act, not an emotion.

          • grandmary42

            Yes, but first is love thy self. Kathleen how many refugees and illegals do you think we should take in?

  • Rosech Levy

    First of all, immigrants are welcome because they come in legally as did my father. Illegals are criminals along with their families because the family even down to 5th generation know who the illegal(s) are have illegally sheltered them in contra our laws. I agree with JoeAllen, our lousy bishops taking money from Obama to give to parishes to care for illegals and not real Americans in need. This has caused many Catholics to stop attending church and I can’t blame them. Since there are 3 main parts we must attend, that is all I do and I don’t listen to any homily saying that everyone, including muslims (you have got to be kidding) are our brothers and we must care for them. Sorry, that is not my America nor my Catholic faith! I have advised our pastor of this so we do not really have a relationship. What the bishops and parishes are doing is illegal, wrong and completely against our religion. Parishes are taking in less money in collections as well. Now, just how long do they think this stupidity can last? Not long so they either shape up and cater to an almost empty building no longer a church.

    • Bruce1314

      “Catholics to stop attending church”This is a grievous mortal sin to stop attending Mass for any reason,we attend Mass for its the Blessed Sacrament we attend for,not the clergy.My fore fathers risked their lives ,in secret,in the bleak cold heather hills so hear their the heather priests offer Mass in secrecy ,when the Mass was banned by Protestant Government,so we should all be grateful we have clergy who can offer Mass for us,irrespective to their political views.You have never had it so good

  • Truth Matters

    Mexico deported 90000 central americans last year. 30000 so far this year. They have a strong border facing Guatemala. It’s funny why they are gainst US building the wall when they have a strong south border and deporting people.